off the grid?

[fern]

Hi All. Is solar and wind power truly the way of the future or simply the best way to get off the grid? Do you believe oil and gas are fossil fuels and not Earth's renewable resource? Do you feel we should take advantage of our own gas and oil reserves off shore as well as Bakken, the Rockies, the shales from New Mexico thru Wyoming and Louisiana thru New York? Is everyone aware that our oil US reserves are several times larger than the entire Mid-East together?

[Toepopper]

Any type of energy is going to cost you money. Wind turbines have a tendancy to quit and are a pain to repair, plus the initial cash outlay is financially overwhelming to most working stiffs. Most solar systems require a generator for charging house batteries and supplying power to your house during the winter months when the days are short and the sun does not want to cooperate. This requires fuel in the form of gasoline, propane or diesel. Plus you have to transport and store the fuel. My wife and I have lived off the grid for most of our adult lives, but we are both stubborn enough to deal with it. We use 8 - 12 volt solar panels and a Trace 2012 modified sine wave inverter to power our house. Most modern systems are 24 or 48 volts. There is a lot of technical know how and component familiarization if you want to install a solar system yourself. We had to because of the extra money it takes to have a solar contractor type of installation. I currently put aside $35. a month for purchasing new batteries and other unforseen technical malfunctions and to have a cash reserve on hand for these events. I took 2 -25 year old solar panels and mounted them on my barn so now I can listen to an old 12 volt car radio to keep up on all the propaganda. All other outbuildings have no power. We heat the house with firewood. As far as peak oil, I think it is just another marketing scare tactic used to keep the price of gas and oil at an all time high. (THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING) There is no competition between the different oil companies anymore, all brands are the same price, at least here where we live. The oil discovery on the north slope in 1976 by Citgo was reported to contain more oil than Saudi Arabia and the rest of the middle east combined. The test holes were capped and the drilling crews were made to sign a non disclosure statement about this discovery. We are not running out of oil. If we are, then why are they building a 12 lane transcontinental superhighway ?

[fern]

You and your wife are strong folks Toepopper! My husband and I are moving in the direction of building our own little place and preparing for total self sufficiency but I think I may be one that clings to that power line until the last spark goes out! I have been researching solar panels and 12 V is what is consistently recommended. I try but most of what I read seems to fly over my head pretty fast. I was looking at the self sustaining Rittenhouse. Wow! I can just see the cost of that but interesting to see it all together in a cross section. How do you store your fuels? Have you used any of the propane converters on a vehicle? I was thinking of trying one on my motorcycle. We heat with firewood too and I love that. I am sure we could never afford to use the furnace in this old house with no insulation! What are the best stoves out there for the money? We are using an old Jotel stove that came out of a house I bought years ago. I know many people tell me to go with the steel (?) stove in the basement but I have not even looked at any yet. Not even sure but could one be hooked up to the heat runs that exist in this house?

[acet7]

Has anyone though of how to hook up radiant floor heating (water pipes under the floor) to a wood furnace to keep the whole house a bit warmer in the winters?

[Toepopper]

We have a steel stove and it was made by LOPI. Brand names vary from state to state according to the local emissions regulations. What is legal in one state will be illegal in another. Oregon passed a law that requires all wood burning stoves to have a catalytic converter installed in the stove pipe to meet state emissions standards. California has outlawed the burning of all sawn lumber because it was sprayed with an anti mold chemical and this residue may pollute the air. The state has actually created a beurocracy known as THE CLEAN AIR COMMISSION and has hired people to ride around and look at fire wood piles to spot dimensional lumber and write the owner of the woodpile a ticket that comes with a hefty fine! To my knowledge none of these woodpile inspectors have dissappeared yet. We are so remote that the chances of them showing up here are nonexistant.
We get propane delivered twice a year and store it in a 500 gallon tank which is plumbed up the hill to the house. The 4500 watt house generator runs on propane. By using propane, we eliminate the chore of going to town and getting fuel and gassing up the generator. Our refrigerator also runs on propane along with the hot water heater. When we first moved out here we used a home made solar water heater. That was fine until about mid October. Then I made a wood stoked hot water tank but that was just too labor intensive. There aren't enough hours in the day to take care of the chores required to sustain all this stuff so we talked the propane company into delivering to us and that eased up on the chores and made life a little easier. We have not used any propane converters on vehicles because it takes more propane to power the 4 wheeler so we stuck with gasoline - its cheaper. As far as connecting a woodstove to existing ducts, I don't think this will work. Wood stove chimney pipes are double walled and made out of stainless steel so they won't light your house on fire. You will have to locate a pipe throughway all the way up to and thru the roof. A major undertaking. Depending on what state your in they may allow you to vent the pipe through the wall and run it outside. Better check with your local building code/specs. Don't take a chance and end up lighting the house on fire.
acet7, there is a way to use a woodstove and circulate hot water for radiant heat. You will need a 2 story house. They sell stainless steel coils designed to be inserted into the bottom of the stovepipe directly above the stove. You plumb in a half inch copper pipe from the water source. The water is heated inside the coil and when it gets hot enough it will start to climb up the second pipe you have installed to a water storage tank up on the second floor. This phenominum is known as "thermal syphon". From this storage tank you run another pipe down to the radiant heat system zones and in THEORY this will work. In practice, stay away from radiant floor heating systems because they will bleed your wallet and the aggrevation, wasted time and energy, cussing and water leaks will drive you to shooting holes through the system. I have never seen one that worked. They were popular in the 1980's but now most people avoid these systems because they will fail. Many lawsuits were generated around these systems and most of the companies that manufactured them were forced out of business. This is a literal PIPE DREAM Haha. If the power goes off you can always heat water in a couple of big pans on the top of that woodstove and take a spongebath. Less work and aggravation.

[dejure]

Perhaps this better fits elsewhere, but I felt compelled to respond, in hopes it would spark some to strike out in other directions helpful to themselves.

On matters of “firewood inspectors,” there are things the average Joe/Josephine does not know. First, no one in [representative] “government” may wander onto private dirt to search for evidence a crime has taken place. Searching to determine if a crime as taken place is, of course, different than situations where a known crime is being investigated.

At the national level, the fact of this matter may be seen by review of the protections noted at the fourth and fifth amendment of the federal constitution. Generally, each state has similar, but more powerful protections (e.g., here in Washington, they may be found at article one, sections seven and nine). In law, these matters have been addressed in depth. From that, we have things like curtilage, which pertains to your property, whether rented or owned. What this means is, “officials may not enter onto your property to peek into your windows, or to peer inside your barn, in hopes of catching you doing something you were prohibited (by mob rule) from doing, or to catch you not doing what the mob demanded of you. If they cannot see it from the public road, or the neighboring property, they would have to break one or more laws to find the “crime.”

Implied consent may arise from the existence of a water, gas or electric meter. However, implied consent can be dealt with in various ways. For example, a meter can be positioned such that you are not required to give up a privacy right. Key to this is that we cannot be compelled to give up one right in exchange for the exercise of another. Notice may be required. This may include letters and posted signs.

Keep in mind that many, if not all public servants not normally thought of as police are, in fact, considered, in law, to be such. As such, you have certain clear rights when dealing with them (e.g., you don’t have to tell them much, since anything you say can be used against you).

A mere oral assertion, whether by of a neighbor or other, is not sufficient to create probable cause whereby a search can take place. For example, in matters considered to misdemeanors, the police must witness the act to before he can do certain things. Simply put, someone must be willing to put their head on the chopping block, so to speak, before a statement can be acted on. This can be done by affidavit (which includes declarations), complaining of the matter. Essentially, this means a false accusation can come back on the complainant, if the other person is savvy enough to sue in the civil arena.

On the matter of affidavits, a counter affidavit challenges the initial assertion, or confirms it (why would you do that?). For example: I, Ralph, of the family Schwarts, affirm that I do have dimensional lumber in my wood pile. I use this lumber for small construction projects and it is kept dry/stored their to avoid clutter...... ; Agent so and so, hereinafter respectfully referred to as “idiot,” lacks first hand knowledge by which he could make his claim. He has not witnessed me burn dimensional lumber, which I keep for the aforementioned purposes. As such, Idiot has filed a frivolous claim with this court and is, by Court Rule CR 11, for the State of Washington, subject to sanctions. Furthermore, Idiot, by his frivolous claim and other associated acts described herein, has acted outside his scope of authority and, in accordance with the laws referenced in chapter 4.92/96 RCW, may not look to the public to defend future acts to collect damages for his acts (or those of his superiors who seek to ratify his unlawful behavior done in clear conflict with the oath they have taken to uphold the Constitution.......

[dejure]

Moving off the grid can be, as indicated, expensive. Still, it seems little things could also be done to make it more practical.

I acquired rolls of reflective surfaced mylar like film used to fabricate the bubble type reflective insulation. Its merit in keeping heat in or out is well established by its performance. One could use foil from restaurant supply houses to accomplish the same thing (leave a 1/2" or so air gap to avoid conduction of heat). Such things might lend themselves not only to maintaining household temperatures, but might also go a long ways toward building the optimal walk in cooler, or freezer. As a layman, I am speaking in near total ignorance, but presume a homemade fridge or freezer built with ten inch walls could well exceed the efficiency of a commercial unit. I base this on the presumption that commercial units found in stores and homes must be portable, if only to get them into the site whereat they will be used. As such, cranking up the insulation level, while insuring the gasket are secure, seems like it would allow the unit to "coast," so to speak.

I've long marveled at Russian stoves. Similar to some bakeries, they rely on mass, in the tons, to act as a heat flywheel. A backer on the east coast had to cool for months after it was shut down before the workers could go in and demolish it. It was just too hot for man or equipment to deal with and all the heat was stored in its mass.

Similar to the heat flywheel concept, but in reverse, would be the ideal of using cooler soil temperatures to reduce summer heat. It may require going down several feet, but could go a long ways to providing economical cooling means. I remember, vaugely, an article about Arabic countries using tunnels and towers to creat drafts that cooled commercial buildings.

We are looking at different green house designs to see if we can take advantage of reasonably stable soil temperatures to cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Since it would be attached to the house, it could not only provide food, but could contribute to heating.

I like things that cannot break down, and don't result in expensive compent replacement costs a few down the road (e.g., expenive battery replacment costs for hybrid cars). Of course, even these things have initial outlay labor and other costs that reduce how quickly they can be accomplished.

[Toepopper]

In the county I reside in the AIR QUALITY CONTROL BOARD employs the firewood inspectors. They do exist and have been spotted driving up and down county roads and using binoculars to eyeball firewood piles. They also will respond to smoke to verify that you have the proper burning permit and that your fire does not exceed the 4x4 foot dimensions prescribed by the small print on the burning permit. These policeing events generally take place along paved county roads or in small logging hamlets and not on private roads. The state of Kalifornia is broke and they have issued these new eco regulations to generate revenue at the county level, since Arnold has decided to rip off our property tax revenue to float the state budget. I have seen articles in the local papers warning people of when these eco inspectors will be in the area. So far as I know, not a single person has paid a fine for burning dimensional wood in his woodstove, trying to keep his kids warm. It may be unconstitutional but so are drunk driving check points and they have been doing them for 20 years. Where does the constitution say anything about building inspections, payroll taxes or the licensing of all commercial commerce? None of these gov sponsored agencies are mentioned in the constitution, yet we are forced to endure them. I don't have the finances to go to court and establish a legal precident as to what is constitutional or not. All I know is that if they keep pushing us into the corner, something will have to give and it won't be pretty. Read the Declaration Of Independence again and on page 3 it states, "He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance." We have come all the way around to the beginning again.
As for Russian fireplaces, they work great, but here in this state it is against the building/earthquake code to construct a brick fireplace of any kind. No kidding! They have a tendancy to shake apart during an earthquake. All chimneys must be stick framed and lined on the inside with a fire proof material such as drywall and only stainless steel metalbestos stovepipes can be used, secured by earthquake straps every 2 feet. The only approved masonry fireplace was the sectioned, precast out of refractured concrete type and assembled with rebar grouted into slots in the individual pieces. Tha manufacturer went broke due in part to the high cost involved and the trainloads of firewood required to stoke the thing.

[dejure]

Perhaps we need a "Legal Ramblings" thread for topic that may be beneficial to those dealing with "representatives." That aside, based on my somewhat extensive experience dealing with the legal system, both from the inside (child custody and divorce) and out (administrative law, with focus strong on public disclosure), I would recommend those compelled, by whatever cause or reason, consider familiarizing themselves with administrative law.

When dealing with government agencies, a large percentage of issues can be resolved at this level. Even if it cannot be resolved, it is at this level that the majority of critical evidence is introduced into a case, before moving on to a district or superior court for adjudication.

Most matters start out as conflicts between an agency and a private individual. The law presumes the agency right, unless clear prohibitions exist that would show it otherwise. Keep in mind this important difference between you and a government agency/agent: You may do anything not proscribed you, in contrast with that government may only do that which it is prescribed. Said another way, there damn well better be a law supporting what an agent is demanding of you or he/she is outside the scope of his/her authority and may be charged criminally and/or sued in a civil arena.

Regardless whereat you are in a matter involving a city, county or other representative entity, it is paramount that you establish a record. Oft, a review of an administrative record reviews a few simple letters that are countered by declarations that already have the weight of presumption on their side. As such. the individual merely need convert his letters into fact congaing declarations that counter the presumption(s). Photos an other documents can be incorporated into the affidavit/declaration and are a worthwhile effort, if germane to the issues (e.g., "attached hereto and incorporated herein by this reference is a photo of the shelter wherein I store both heating wood and dimensional lumber to keep them dry."

Read local and state court rules on line and find ones that pertain to your issues. The general civil rules usually apply and using them often throws the other side into chaos. Among the rules are the rules of evidence. Use them to submit evidence into the record at the administrative level and things often start changing, since the other side usually only has sketchy presumption to support their case.

You can demand administrative hearings, and even appeals. These tend to be informal meetings. You can record them, since they are public, but give advance warning of the fact (some rules set time for this). Your state's Public Records Act is a powerful tool in such matters. Highly informal, it may carry a lot of teeth that can be used against an agency, and its individual agents.

In Washington, agencies must respond to records request, or they can be subject top hefty "penalties," payable to you. A bit of imagination carries this a long ways. For example, you have the right to demand to see documents that show the rule the agency is claiming to enforce was properly put in place (councils and such often skip critical steps, like publicizing a proposed rule, or filing it with the Auditor).

Anything an agent does is an administrative hearing result and can be challenged. Often, you can create problems by challenging based merely on that an administrative issue was resolved without your having been afforded an administrative hearing (it's well established in law that due process commences at the administrative level). This can, effectively, turn the tables.

We had a case where an individual was evicted from his property for an illegal septic system (modeled after one use in Canada). After a couple short months, the county wrote him and told him to move back on his property and leave them along. That's a very strong administrative decision.

Remember, these [often power mad, or just mad] publik servants are seldom versed in law, but are used to making up rules and having mere mortal public they should, otherwise, be serving comply.

If you do have to capitulate, at lease make clear, immediately above your signature, you do so under duress only and it is not done willfully or knowingly. Furthermore, note that you do not waive any right or agree to the act, except under threat.

If you find yourself in a battle with an administrative agency (an unlawful combine of two or more branches), be aware there are numerous sources at your disposal. For example: 1) you can pull the agency's records on line; 2) you can buy a monthly membership on Versus Law to pull precedent favorable to you (it will be there); you can review court rules for application to the matter (without rules, the agency could claim any rule, including that you should be shot for defending yourself, so are required to have hearing and appeal rules and to make them available; other people have fought and won without going to court and setting precedent (look for agency assenting and dissenting decisions).